“I’ve had to let go of a lot of stupid theories. Stupid is how I see them now—I can’t believe I ever held some of those theories. Theories like ‘good people keep their rooms clean’, TV is bad,… toy guns are dangerous. … They all really mean that ‘my mind is made up and I know the right way to live and I’m going to impose this on my children… and their opinions don’t count when the going gets tough because they are only kids…’”
– Laurie C.
From the archives: Posted on 6th December 1997
Angie wrote:
“I am having many of the same sort of problems as Amy, sometimes all goes well, other times are dreadful.”
This sounds pretty normal to me—especially for someone starting to take a look at the amount of coercion in their lives and trying to come to terms with just how much might have to change to get from “here” to “there.” It seems like it is our “control” that keeps life running tolerably and so we wonder how it can “work” without it.
I first joined this list [the Taking Children Seriously forum] about 2 years ago and I’m still stumbling upon areas where I hold this “control” theory. As you peel off one layer, another pops up! But for us it seems well worth the effort.
“One of my children gets toys out in their bedroom, plays with them dumps them on the floor. It has now got to the stage where you cannot walk across the room. The carpet is covered in a layer of toys and clothes 6—18 inches deep. As long as I don’t have to see it I don’t mind.”
What do your children think of the “mess?” They have to see it, do they mind? Would they prefer to have a clear floor so they can find a place to start the next game? If so, are there ways you can help them get “there” without even subtle coercion?
My older children would like to have their rooms picked up but they don’t want to stop and do this “work.” A couple of them tend to drop whatever it is, wherever they are and just keep right on going.
I don’t have the perfect answer that would apply to another family’s situation but, in general, what we do is just keep plugging away. I really don’t care it this point what their rooms look like. The doors are open most of the time and I just don’t feel attached to the state of their rooms—clean or messy. Sometimes they ask me to help them pick up their rooms and I gladly do. We usually have fun at this because they truly want their room clean at that moment. They love to have me help them figure out how to store stuff and how to group it so it makes sense that they can find it again. I sometimes explain how I think about the picking up process and how I make it easier for myself. I present these as “ideas” not the best or final solution for them.
They welcome “assistance” from me in this area. And I don’t resent it at all. It’s their stuff, their space. Period. I’m helping them get what they want on their terms.
With my youngest (almost 3) she has an older person with/near her most of the time so we just keep putting away one thing as she is moving on to the next. This is what she wants to do. Even if she doesn’t want to do the work herself she almost invariably wants it done. Most of the time the clean up is about as fun as the game itself for her. I wouldn’t be surprised if this changes real soon! The most important thing is to figure out what the child wants and help them get it without coercing them.
“The problem is the amount of toys that get broken and ruined, child’s father does not wish to buy child any new toys.”
I doubt if they want broken toys either. Maybe you could figure out together ways to prevent toys from getting broken. Putting things away immediately after you use them is not the only solution. I remember being told “if you only …” when I was little and it wasn’t the least bit helpful. I knew I couldn’t keep up the pace. It made me feel inadequate to be told this. Putting things away immediately after you use them is probably not a good solution for most kids. Do your kids have ideas about this?
“Or want to additional money to replace favorite broken/lost toys”
Again, most children would rather have the money for new and different toys and not buy the same favorite toy again. We certainly have replaced toys that are broken (or lost). This seems inevitable. If I accidentally scratched my favorite CD, I’d sure want to buy a new one and not have anyone rub my nose in the fact that I didn’t put it back in the case before I ran to answer the phone (or whatever). Things happen. I may or may not have learned anything helpful in the process.
“Storage is not a problem as I have built a floor to ceiling shelf unit and provided lots of large plastic storage crates.”
Yes, for me, some of these practical sort of things make a big difference—especially in the common areas of the house. I put laundry hampers and waste baskets and toy baskets in most of the common rooms—makes for one-stop picking up.
“Another bugbear is bedtime, by the time 9 pm comes I would like some time to myself. I find that I am staying up later and later just to try and grab a little space.”
I struggle with finding time for myself too (that is the main reason that you see so few posts from me!). One thing I can say, though, that becoming more flexible in this area has opened up a lot of possibilities and we have a lot more fun around here.
My four children vary widely in the hours they prefer to sleep and in the number of hours of sleep they want to get. I think it would be cruel to force them into one pattern that suited my needs. I have to be careful not to ignore my own needs though (self-sacrifice being detrimental to the whole “system”).
“Like Amy I also feel like I am grasping at straws, and missing a lot of them!”
I think this all takes a lot of hard work—a lot of “thinking” and working through for yourself and your situation: “Given the damaging nature of coercive situation “x”, how can we move towards real solutions where no one is coerced.”
I’ve had to let go of a lot of stupid theories. Stupid is how I see them now—I can’t believe I ever held some of those theories. Theories like “good people keep their rooms clean”, TV is bad, things made out of wood are inherantly better than things made out of plastic, toy guns are dangerous. The list of these little ones goes on and on and on. They all really mean that “my mind is made up and I know the right way to live and I’m going to impose this on my children (largely by narrowing their options) so they will grow up to be good people too and their opinions don’t count when the going gets tough because they are only kids and don’t know the truth and have no way to evaluate it anyway.”
And all this from a person who has never forced her children to go to school, has always “unschooled” and has always been fairly relaxed around safety, manners, and lots of other stuff. Hmm.
Good luck Angie. Hope this is helpful. Keep asking questions!
Laurie
See also:
Laurie C., 1997, ‘Stumbling towards taking children seriously’, https://takingchildrenseriously.com/stumbling-towards-taking-children-seriously